Spend Your Life : An Interview with John Stirratt

Noise Floor contributor Nick Calvino catches up with Wilco bassist John Stirratt. 

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Editor’s note: As promised, friend-of-the-blog Nick Calvino returns with another interview feature looking towards this year’s Solid Sound Festival – which takes over North Adams and MASS MocA for the final weekend of June. This week’s chat is a lengthy one with the great John Stirratt, which marks the second Wilco member we’ve been lucky enough to feature in such a capacity here at Noise Floor.  

When listening to Wilco, you’ve no doubt taken notice of the supporting low end provided by bassist John Stirratt.

From the time he took up with the preceding project Uncle Tupelo, he and Jeff Tweedy have remained the two constants in the “Wilcoverse.” His topdrawer bass playing and harmonies flesh out the sound and make their catalog timeless as ever.

As if that weren’t enough, there is The Autumn Defense – his project that puts his songwriting and guitar work in the spotlight along with that of Wilco bandmate Pat Sansone. Their records effortlessly oscillate between yearning and breeziness with classic production touches that might make one wonder if they were hidden gems from the 70s lighter rock greats.

Ahead of this year’s edition of Wilco’s Solid Sound Festival, Noise Floor chatted with Stirratt about his musical beginnings and the life that has unfolded since. Much like the festival itself – a sprawling three-day event that takes over the campus of the Massachusetts Museum of Contemporary Art – his interests and offerings are varied and inspiring.

The Roman philosopher Seneca is credited with the axiom that “luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.”

And, yeah. I’m going to go there.

This comes to mind as I reflect on my conversation with Stirratt. His is a story of a “lucky” individual that might motivate a person to follow their interests down a path full of goals but that isn’t necessarily designed to end. That one could and should put in the time to see their passions through and allow for them to blossom into a rich life full of surprises and close connections.

Not exactly easy. But – and now I’m quoting Stirratt – “it’s just that simple.”

NC: How are you? Where are you based these days? I know you’re usually traveling quite a bit.

JS: I’m in Maine now, which is my home. It’s a pretty slow year, but we are going to Japan in a week so that’s a pretty huge trip [laughs]. But exciting at the same time. It’s Australia and Japan and, sadly, not New Zealand this time. It’s kind of like the reward of playing all of the same sort of spots we always play in the United States, you know? It’s great to get over there, so I’m excited about that.

NC: How do you decide what to check out on the road? I’ve noticed that if Wilco or The Autumn Defense is on tour…if you’re in New York, for example, you’ve posted about walking around Central Park. There seems to always be something going on with you exploring cities and towns. How do you normally go about choosing places to go there?

JS: A lot of it has depended on my personal experiences in where we have been before. Generally, given the length of the band’s life, we’ve been kind of everywhere before. It kind of comes down to that a lot of hotel rooms are just hard to be in and, obviously, if you’re in a place like that you’re going to get out of the room and look around. I’ve always had that curiosity when walking around.

A lot of it is old experiences. Places you’ve stumbled upon. Before Google Maps, it’s neighborhoods that you see and I generally go to these places every three-to-five years so you see the places change over time. Especially in the States. And you see different places coming up and other neighborhoods that are sort of not-as-exciting or something [laughs]. So a lot of it is based on your own exploration but certainly friends giving suggestions. That’s a huge plus.

Nels Cline from Wilco – his wife, Yuka Honda – is Japanese and she has lots of friends there and has, since we’ve known her, has recommended a lot of things in Japan for us. And then there’s friends in the States, guidebooks, Instagram – probably why everything is discovered these days.

The ability to research attractions or restaurants and coffee shops is so easy now. I do sometimes yearn for those days where it was “feet on the ground” exploration.

NC: It’s interesting to see how many touring musicians are quietly, even before the term “foodie” was en vogue – bands like Yo La Tengo and Fugazi and Superchunk – people dedicated to finding good spots on the road even if it’s to break the tedium or not rely on gas station food.

JS. Absolutely. I worked in restaurants and I think we both represent aspects of the counterculture – music and food. They are certainly a type of person [laughs]. Not really in the mainstream. So that’s something that is certainly attractive to me. And finding decent food in those times where there was none to be had felt like a collective mission.

NC: We can either start with the wayback when or we can start with more recent stuff. I don’t know where your head is at this morning. Dealer’s choice.

JS: I can go wherever.

NC: I wanted to go bit further back because I recently revisited some of your very early work. Specifically, going back to your work with The Hilltops. I’m curious how you look back on your start of playing in bands and where you are now. How do you view that progression going from playing in college towns and working your way up to current professional life? Was it ever an option not to be a professional musician?

JS: It’s funny – this has come up a lot in terms of this generational behavior. Being firmly Generation X and this idea that we were grinding it out and were the “worker’s generation.” In those days, the alternative or underground code of absolute DIY with bands and independent music.

I started out in college and was playing with some friends before we got popular in a cover band. Really early on, it was when I was a freshman or sophomore in college, and all of a sudden I was playing several nights a week. We actually had a booking agent and a PA.

I just found myself pulled into this pretty successful cover band that would play the Southeast at all the major Southern colleges. I was doing this insane…none of the other guys were in college but I was still trying to get my degree. I would drive, meet the band in a town, play a gig, drive back to class the next morning two or three hours in the middle of the night. I’d meet them again in Atlanta or something the next day.

It was really insane but playing in a cover band that much – although I was playing guitar – was really a lot of fun and a baptism by fire for what the road was like, to a certain degree.

There’s kind of a tradition of Southern frat bands, really, prominent around places like Memphis. This was the college town of Oxford, MS where University of Mississippi is. At that point, an amazing place because you had the hill country blues scene going on up in North Mississippi and Fat Possum [Records] had been established, although the previous owner. And Junior Kimbrough’s juke joint was happening. R.L. Burnside was putting out records. Mississippi is just so rich from a musical standpoint.

And at the same time, going to Memphis and seeing bands and being influenced by whatever was coming out at the time.

We started to play originals and shift into writing more and got away from being a cover band. We had a house in downtown Oxford where we would host bands that would roll through. It was just all so DIY in that environment. There was a great club downtown that our friend booked and we’d get bands in and put the bands up at our house. Sometimes feed the bands and have parties. And even though it was free, it was this early interest in hospitality for me, too.

My twin sister, Laurie, was in the band by then and she would cook these big gumbos and everything like that. I don’t want to call it a “salon”, but it was more of a crash pad for bands. And that’s how I met Jeff [Tweedy] and Scott McCaughey from the Young Fresh Fellows. These relationships go back thirty-five years now.

That was the climate I came up in. And playing with The Hilltops, I guess my sister and my bandmate had really heard the Uncle Tupelo cassette first through the college radio station. The phone on the back of what was basically No Depression, their last demo which is called Not Forever, Just For Now, I think. We called the number on the back of the cassette and it was Tony Margherita who was [Wilco’s] manager until about three years ago, basically. And that’s the beginning of where I’m at now. It’s been this direct line.

We got them down to do a show at this cool club and we opened for them. We got to know them and they took us on the road later. It was such a product of this 80s American music scene. And there was also, at the time, the Southern club circuit which was so thriving. It was incredible. All of these colorful places – some of which are still open. The Nick in Birmingham was an amazing club that still exists. Playing double wide trailers and this place called W.C. Don’s in Jackson, MS. In those days, people would go out every night to the clubs. It was five dollars for whatever band and it could be us, or it could be early-R.E.M. or whatever [laughs]. It was a thriving scene back in those days. I’m sure you’ve heard a lot of people my age pontificate about that. It was exciting and it was fertile.

NC: It does seem like even well-established artists have some reverence or appreciation for that circuit or people like – and I’m too young to have been blessed with the opportunity to see him – Alex Chilton who was in The Box Tops and then Big Star who would never stop going to these small places and doing whatever he needed or wanted to do. Like he was never going to stop.

JS: Speaking of Alex, the band house that we had had a couple of girls living there who were really cute. Sort of a co-ed roommate situation. So it’d attract a lot of musicians and parties were always well-attended. And I remember coming back from a road trip really late at night and Alex Chilton was sitting on the sofa of our house and it was like “what the hell if going on?” He just rolled through town with some people and ended up there and I scrambled to find Big Star records so he could sign them.

And Dexter Romweber, who just passed away. We put The Flat Duo Jets up a few times, as well. Love Tractor, bands like that. That was the era and it was fun.

NC: Two moments that stand out – correct me if I’m wrong – at the last Solid Sound, was Mike Watt using your bass. Is that true?

JS: He did! And what an honor. I’ve printed out pictures of him playing it. I forget why. I think he had a problem in transit or something like that. But, yeah, he did and what a treat. It was amazing.

NC: Between that and, it must’ve been almost ten years ago at one of the earlier Solid Sounds, I had hounded you down to sign the sleeve of the “I’m a Wheel” single that I had. You were kind enough to do so, I’d like to add. But as you were signing it, you mentioned your time touring with Neil Young and waiting until the very end of the tour to have him sign all of your records.

All of the members of Wilco are well-documented as fans in their own right and not just born of nothing. So, between this time of putting up bands and touring that circuit and working to where you are now, is there anything that stands out to you as a fan? These “what the hell” moments where you wonder how you got to that position, not dissimilar to that Alex Chilton anecdote?

JS: I would say that it was Neil Young. He was so kind. So many bands did The Bridge School Benefit and were invited into his home with Pegi [Young] for a reception. And that will always be this incredible memory of just being able to look at Neil Young’s pictures in his living room and meet people like Henry Diltz and people who were there at ground zero in that world.

I do remember, on the last night on tour with him, singing onstage with him at Madison Square Garden. That was an apex, for sure. In terms of “Where am I? What am I doing? How did I get here?”

Something else that popped into my mind was that 7 Worlds Collide project. Neil Finn had invited us to New Zealand…and that was this collective recording with musicians we had never met, but that we idolized. To be able to hang out for a month recording with Johnny Marr and guys in Radiohead. Lifelong friendships were formed in that situation. And having Neil Finn being the person who put it together. And just to be able to hang out in Piha, New Zealand for a month – I had this great connection through my wife who had actually lived there before I ever went there. That, to me, is still one of the best musical memories that I have.

NC: I can’t imagine anyone turning down the invitation to go to New Zealand to record with Neil Finn.

JS: [laughs] I don’t know if anyone ever did. It was really a wonderful experience.

NC: This is now ten years since the last Autumn Defense record. What’s the deal with that? Is there another one coming?

JS: Yeah! We just finished all of the basic recording of it this past week. I just returned from Nashville two days ago. It’s amazing how time can go by that way. Early on in the band, it was definitely a blur. There was that period from 2003 and 2004 when Pat [Sansone] had gotten into Wilco [where] we had done a record in between Wilco records. And we did that for several years.

I think it was a combination of him getting more into production at that point – he had a lot of options, in terms of producing records – and I definitely didn’t want to travel as much. Not that we really needed to, but I got involved with that hotel project out in North Adams. We just slowed down for a minute and things got busy again. Ten years can go by pretty quick, in that way. I’m just astounded it has been that long because a lot of this material, even from the last record, feels pretty new to me.

It’s exciting. I’m also not super prolific in terms of songwriting these days. I do it quite a lot but i don’t always get a lot of quantity when I do. It was just various other projects. I was doing film scoring and production, myself. I’ve always have stayed busy, but there’s other non-musical things going on as well.

NC: I’m familiar with the score you did for Museum Town, but wasn’t aware of the production stuff. Do you want to touch on some of that?

JS: Unfortunately, some of it didn’t come out. I did produce a record for this Illinois artist Tom Irwin. Kind of a Jerry Jeff Walker-type journeyman songwriter from Springfield, IL. He’s fantastic. And we did a record with him that came out that I’m proud of.

And another couple that, unfortunately, didn’t get released in terms of bands breaking up before the record came out. Things like that that we put a lot of time into. Just part of that world, for sure. The production world. You can work on something pretty hard for a long time and things can happen where the record doesn’t come out. I guess you could find a lot of parallels with that and a lot of other occupations.

NC: If only someone would warn people about the unpredictability of the arts sometimes.

JS: Yeah. The music business?

I just felt busy. And my wife, and all of our amazing wives in the Wilco world, holding down the fort and raising the kids. I have a seventeen year old daughter now and I was obviously doing that as well. That’s pretty full time, in itself.

NC: For this newest recording session for The Autumn Defense – assuming that this is something coming out in the near future, hopefully – is it all the usual suspects that’s you’ve had on the last few records?

JS: It is. It’s the same band, which blows me away. Much in the same that we’ve had this team in Wilco for so long. But in The Autumn Defense, Greg Wieczorek, our drummer. I mean, he started recording in ‘99 with us. It’s incredible. We have this really long relationship with him and I feel so fortunate in that way to have these two different bands.

James Haggerty has played with us for at least twelve years. Fifteen years, or something. They do so much session work. Greg played with Norah Jones for years. They’re great musicians and they have a sound. They have a sound unto themselves and when it comes together, it’s just so fast. I feel really fortunate to still have them in my life, musically.

NC: As a listener, it feels like you all tap into something specific. And I know that you and Pat have talked at great length of your love for [The Zombies record] Odyssey and Oracle as an influence on that project.

When you’re approaching The Autumn Defense, does that give you an opportunity to flex as a guitarist? Or as a songwriter? Or is it more that it comes together when it comes together?

JS: I play so much acoustic in that band and so it is pretty much song-based. I don’t know. My job is basically to write six decent songs for a record [laughs]. And when I am writing, I’m thinking of the band for whatever I’m writing. as a showcase for the strengths of the band with harmony and the feel of the band. So it is definitely song-based.

Instrumentally, I haven’t played much electric guitar on the records in a while but I’m still writing a lot of the songs and a little bit of piano here or there over the years. It’s to try and tap into that musical connection we have and to try and celebrate that or give it a platform to breathe.

NC: Having this moniker of being a “light rock” band – having mentioned The Zombies and Colin Blunstone solo stuff at times with the band covering “Misty Roses” before, as well – I hear a lot of America in there.

You had spoken about him as an inspiration to your bass playing, but I was not aware until recently that Joe Osborn [played on] “Ventura Highway.”

JS: Right! That’s incredible. I didn’t know that until three or four years ago. Very cool.

It’s funny. Whenever I go back to the records…obviously the singles are so incredible. It is such an interesting thing how you can tell that that first [Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young] record sent these waves and how influential that record was for America and everything.

The story of America is interesting, too. The Army bases and growing up in Germany. It’s a cool story.

NC: I was thinking about Joe Osborn and yourself having interviewed them. What is it about someone like that that inspires you? If you were looking to namecheck or “spread the gospel” on someone like a bass playing or songwriting inspiration.

JS: What struck me [about Joe Osborn] was the people he played with. He played with a lot of the same people like Larry Knechtel. That amazing session for Bridge over Troubled Water and then The Wolf King of L.A.. That team of Knechtel, [Hal] Blaine, and Osborn. Do you know The Wolf King of L.A.? The John Phillips record?

NC: No.

JS: Great, great record. It’s so spontaneous. So interesting given that they were aiming, at least on Bridge over Troubled Water, for this big production. But it still has a free feeling to it.

The Southern, soulful bass players have always been a huge attraction to me. Including – and I’ve mentioned him a lot – that guy Tommy Cogbill who was with [American Sound Studio]. Played on “Son of a Preacher Man,” for example. Ton of Wilson Pickett stuff. He produced “Angel of the Morning” by Merrilee Rush. He was kind of this jazz guitar player who switched to bass and had this freewheeling style that is just amazing. It’s an inspiration to me and I aspire to that.

Tina Weymouth is someone who, in the last couple of years, I’ve been so inspired by. Just the fact that they were all new to their instruments when forming Talking Heads. But the commitment to basslines that she had. How inventive her parts were and how she committed to that. It has really resonated with me. Especially Fear of Music and that era.

I mean those guys like Joe Osborn and funk players and everything. There’s a wander like “well, I could never do that.” It’s really fun to listen to. Whereas, there’s almost something I could take from Tina’s in creating a really good line that really establishes the song and being fully committed to it.

NC: A lot of those players have a great ear for harmony, but their playing is so melodious at times. Whether it’s…there’s a lot of Wilco basslines where I hear that influence come through. The way you accentuate different notes. I don’t normally hear you necessarily just playing root-four-five, but extending things in a way that a [Paul] McCartney or a [James] Jamerson might. I can see a throughline and wouldn’t sell yourself short there.

JS: I’ve always just tried to have an instinctive…I think you look back to when you’re younger and you’re thinking so much less. To try and keep that spirit alive in whatever you do. Whether it’s bass or a lot of things in life. It’s not just fearlessness but maybe it’s commitment. Certainly having the people I’ve played with – whether it’s Jeff’s songs and overall vision – I’ve been able to learn from so many people and have this fertile music framework to bounce around in and that’s the luckiest aspect of my career, for sure.

NC: How did you find yourself here in the Northeast, as someone from down in the South moving up North this far – first to Chicago then to Maine? How does New England factor into your life and how do you see it as an outsider coming in?

JS: Well, I can thank my wife for really introducing me to MidCoast Maine. I always did love traveling to Portland. I think the first time I was in Portland was maybe ‘92. I had actually played up in Brunswick with Uncle Tupelo.

I’ve always loved Maine and the maritime culture here. I have this juvenile interest in ships and boats [laughs]. I did grow up in Lake Pontchartrain in Louisiana and that fishing culture is very much alive there. I think that’s part of it. I think Wilco had done a show in 1999 at Camden Opera House and that was my first trip to MidCoast. I was really taken by it, even back then.

My wife, who I met in 2004, really had a lot of ties to Maine. Her parents retired here so we started coming up in the summers while living in Chicago. And we made the move up here which was definitely a dream of her’s. I really love it and it’s quite beautiful

I think there’s a lot of connections to my upbringing in Louisiana and buying shrimp from guys on the side of the road. It’s kind of the same thing. Guys in rubber boots with interesting accents and you’re buying, in this case oysters and scallops or whatever. The connections are definitely there but climate-wise very different. The cultural identity of Maine is really strong and Louisiana has that.

NC: You’ve leaned into that with projects you’re involved in like Otyokwa.

JS: Yeah, the camp that we have here in MidCoast that we found. I see a lot of parallels with the South where you find these relics in these places that just don’t have large populations or a high amount of industrial turnover. Places like Mississippi and Maine. It’s not hard to find the past. These incredibly well-preserved buildings or pieces of property.

The camp was an incredible old boys’ camp from the ‘30s that closed during World War II and it was run as a family camp after that. We just do family reunions and friend get-togethers as a buyout for the spot. We’ve done a few musical things like this little event last year with Nels. Kind of a jazz, open air day of music. That was quite fun and I hope to do more of that in the future. There’s some stuff planned for this summer that we’ll announce before too long.

NC: And that was the Sonic Sleepover, right?

JS: That’s right. It was really rainy last summer but we lucked out and had one beautiful day that turned out great.

NC: How did you get involved with Tourists?

JS: There was this period where I was blown away, living in Chicago at the time, seeing what had changed with hospitality having lived out of hotel rooms for so many years.

I think the first real inspiration, really, was going to Phoenix Hotel in San Francisco. And seeing what was, really, a light makeover of a motor lodge. That was the first time you walked into a place and you were like “this place is not a ‘big money’ situation.” It just seemed attainable.

Ironically, that hotel was really influential – I think – to Liz Lambert in Austin, as well. Who really changed Austin with Hotel San José on Congress Street. We started staying there and it became a hotel product that really spoke to my aged person. It was almost this “new luxury.”

You know whenever you’re in a [hotel chain name removed to protect interview subject], everything – the smells, the sights – feels alien.

Just this idea of creating a bespoke hotel. I was blown away by that and a few other properties. Then, just trying to find partners to be involved in it. I found, through a guy named Scott Stedman who I met at a food event in Chicago, some of his family who are really creative developers out of Boston. And we started scouting right away.

We looked up in Maine but we all had this tie, this connection, to North Adams which was really attractive to them. What the cultural climate was – the museum industry. And that’s how Tourists sort of happened.

We found the motor lodge which was called The Redwood Motel which was sort of lovingly-maintained for years and years and just had about ten years of bad days. It changed hands and was operated remotely.

This thing has been really tapped into nationwide and there are TV shows about it now – renovating old hotels. But we did a light makeover that you might’ve seen there just to get a feel of what the property was like and what the potential was like, and then went ahead with a big plan. Being able to open up that river to the rear was just such a huge thing.

It was really the story of New England mill villages, which predated all of the towns. Blackinton – the mill village between Williamstown and North Adams. I mean, this predates North Adams by a long stretch. In the 1760s, the first mill was there. All of the building that came up around it is fascinating. We geeked out over the history of it for years.

It was a five-year project. And in the second or third year, I moved to New England so I was able to drive out there a little more spontaneously. We opened in 2018 and survived the pandemic and are still rolling on.

It’s not easy. I will say that opening a hotel is a massive task and we were able to bring in a lot of people from different regions of the country which is kind of interesting. Like the hospitality came from Austin so it feels pretty exotic to be in The Berkshires.

It’s similar to New Orleans – these places that have been destinations for a long time. There’s a little bit of a tired quality. This was definitely fresh when it opened in ‘18. “It’s a small miracle every time a hotel opens,” I always say. I have a lot of respect for people that do multiple projects like that.

NC: Yeah. You’re 0 for 2 in picking industries with a high success rate, between music and hotel management.

JS: [laughs] Yeah. Well, it made me appreciate – not that the music industry is easy at all – the elements of risk that are pretty daunting in hospitality.

NC: As a touring musician, especially in the last fifteen years, there’s been this push to reclaim certain aspects of hospitality to be “slowing down” or simplify things. Especially in the early-oughts when the Walmart effect was in full force in a lot of towns and not long after, people started to take on different projects and put their own spin on things to fight against the chain restaurant or chain hotels.

And not an affectation of a hipster take on things, but really trying to provide a sense of luxury or comfort but without imposing too much of its own quality on a person. But allowing people to make their own memories.

But the thing that I’ve noticed, in your music or hospitality endeavors, is that a lot of it comes down to serving the purpose of the task at hand. Whether it’s facilitating folks that are traveling and experiencing time with their loved ones or friends or playing the right thing for the right song.

I’m curious what your thoughts on the idea of facilitation are. There’s an element of control in there in this “quiet” work that goes into these things that often might otherwise go overlooked, but to those paying attention is very important. Like your appreciation for Liz Lambert or Joe Osborn. Not necessarily household names, but you see the work that goes into making these things happen.

JS: Well, that’s kind and somewhat accurate. I think what someone like me can do, at least for projects or running bands…I think the appreciation of that amazing musical climate I’ve been around and the talent that I’ve been able to be around and add to, certainly has influenced these other projects.

The hotel business is probably like moviemaking, really, in terms of departmental disciplines and trying to find the right fit and the right talent for the design and hospitality and operations. I think that the one thing that’s afforded me this life has been the extended network of people, frankly. It’s the people that you really run into on the road or meet. If you maintain a level of curiosity.

I think about that with Solid Sound. Once we realized “we’re these aging musicians and we have this massive network of people that we know, we could really put together an interesting three-day festival.” Just with our friends. And they might give us a break on our rate [laughs]. We’re not trying to make a lot of money here, or anything.

That ethos, for sure, that facilitation comes with this idea of delegation – realizing the strengths of the people you have around you. And trust. And letting things happen. It’s just amazing what can happen.

That is, essentially, a lot of what I did with the hotel. Say “oh, you’re looking for an art project? Have you checked out Airlift – the playable architectural structures in New Orleans in the Ninth Ward?” Just to be able to be able to bring in different flavors. That’s the strength of a lot of musicians. They see a lot and are almost these kind of “cultural scouts.”

On a bigger level, that idea of facilitation is very kind, but I think that’s an interesting way to look at it. I do see a parallel with it and it’s about that – trust and delegation in your immediate community.

NC: Having just touched on it, looking back and looking to this year’s edition of Solid Sound, what has that meant to you and the rest of the band over the years? It seems to be a tighter operation now. People have a very general idea of what to expect but there’s always curveballs.

For example, Marc Ribot was just added to the lineup.

JS: Really?! [laughs]

NC: Yeah! Evidently, according to the website.

JS: Well, that’s cool! It’s funny. I did go back to look at a master list of everyone who has played [since] 2010. The fact that we’ve been able to hang in there and present this…

It’s two factors. The competitive nature of the band, even trying to get favorite artists who happen to be friends slots and how hard that is given people’s schedules and money and everything. The fact that Alex, and the management, and Jeff keep this going is incredible.

And I think it says a lot about, maybe, the goodwill that Wilco has created over the years. But also, it’s the framework of the fans. Basically, the culture of the fans that has existed around Wilco forever. I can remember, especially, the online side of the fans following Wilco in like ‘98. I remember these chat groups and I couldn’t even access [them], but they’ve always existed. It’s almost like [this group of people] would exist outside of us being a group [laughs].

I mean, there’s just a strong fan culture and communication with them. And that, given the setting of Mass MoCA – thanks to [Mass MoCA founding director] Joe Thompson for making that happen – because you have this enclosed, finite, “the thing can’t get any bigger.” It will always be this finite size given the confines of the museum. With that fan culture in this environment of one of the best contemporary art museums in the country, you have something that is hard to beat.

It still is such a brutal job to book and do this every two years. I can’t believe we even did it every year at one point. Just with all of the competition in the festival zone. But, it has been something that has been carried along and worked out very well by our management from the beginning. Even in the early days of vending and things that mean a lot to people.

NC: Speaking of the brutality of it. I’m not going to press you for what this year’s special set will be. But what has been the most brutal one?

JS: I think it was the covers set. We were all doing a lot of programming, too. We were doing installations and way too much every year. We didn’t realize that those things could be delegated. There’s definitely a lot of work on the musical side of it. I remember overdoing it a little bit.

You have to gauge it, socially, the right way. Not to spread yourself too thin.

That one, for me, was hard.

NC: That was also the year Brendan Canty and Christoph Green were filming the festival, too?

JS: Exactly. There’s nothing like a camera in the room to make everyone act normal and at ease I guess we didn’t learn that in 2001 [laughs].

NC: You must have a history with a lot of these bands and [maybe] put names in a hat of who you would like to play the festival. Is there anyone that has played that felt like a big get or that you are particularly excited about this year?

You and Pat have covered Miracle Legion and seeing them reunite for this is pretty special.

JS: That was big. That was really big. I was definitely aware of the band at the time and a fan, but I think that Pat had a real connection with that band. Mark [Mulcahy] is a local entity which gives it this wonderful story. We’ve had him sit in before. We know his playing with Miracle Legion has been a bit intermittent, so to see that happen is huge. That would be the story of this year, for me. Every year has stories like that, on some level, where I’m like “wow, I can’t believe these people are here.”

“I can’t believe Television is going to be playing!” That might be one, with the passing of Tom [Verlaine] last year. So often, especially with years we’re on the road going into Solid Sound, we’re a little bit in survival mode where we don’t necessarily have the time to appreciate certain events. That still resonates with me in a huge way.

NC: There’s kind of a CBGB’s vibe with Television and then David Byrne at the last one.

JS: Right, right.

And then, of course, Levon Helm was just incredible and lovely. Given the fact that he wasn’t with us much longer after that.

NC: Is there anything beyond Miracle Legion where you feel like you finally got them to play or are psyched for?

JS: I [recently made] a small playlist for a press thing, so I’m deep into the music.

Iris DeMent was someone that I’ve been a fan of for years. Really psyched for her to be there.

It’s so amazing that Jason [Isbell] was interested in this and being a part of it up there with us. Very, very cool. He, obviously, will shine a big light on this year for us. We go back so many years with Drive-By Truckers and everything. Seeing his success is amazing.

The band Wednesday – was really excited that they were added.

Horsegirl is such an incredible story in that they’re all just maybe one or two years older than my daughter. They were all in School of Rock together in Chicago and just came together and they’re actually our friends’ kids, basically, from the neighborhood. A really beautiful story.

Chicago is this incredible breeding ground for multigenerational musicians between Spencer [Tweedy] and all of these younger kids my daughter’s age. A lot of their parents are musicians and are sort of tour managing their own kids that are signed to Matador and what not. It’s really fun.

NC: Chicago is great. Going forward from that 90’s era, but it never seems to slow down in its musical output.

JS: I know. “90’s” is kind of the key word because it’s like all of these kids…apparently Daydream Nation was played on repeat in their houses [laughs]. It all sounds like late-80’s/early-90’s Sonic Youth. It’s pretty awesome.

And then, of course, Nick Lowe. He’s like the Cary Grant of rock and roll. Is it Old Hollywood or is it 70’s pub rock? He’s incredible and to have him finally be there is a huge deal for us.

NC: A very charming performer.

JS: I think we tell more stories about Nick than anybody while we’re on the road. We had such an incredible tour with him in 2012 where we were able to play a few songs with him. Glad to see him in North Adams.

There’s a lot of people I’m looking forward to seeing. I hope I can see them. That’s always a challenge.

NC: Oh – I did want to ask about Cousin. Your playing on it is really great and it’s all so strange, being filtered through Cate Le Bon. How do you feel about it a few months removed?

JS: It was a lot of recording between Cruel Country and Cousin. I prefer that type of recording the older I get. We’ve built a lot of records. But I think what we have to offer at this point – a special thing that an ensemble can offer after playing together that many years – is the sort of “X factor” of playing together on the floor. Cruel Country really reflected that to a big degree. It’s a sprawling record.

And Cousin was more of an assemblage. We actually had a COVID-interrupted session. It wasn’t quite as smooth. I would say it wasn’t as effortless but we’ve made records like that quite a bit before. And Cate – she definitely brought a sound to the table which was interesting.

I’m a fan of her work. No doubt. But it’s a different process and there’s something to be said for each type of process.

NC: Do you have a particular favorite cut off the record after road testing stuff?

JS: I would say…the song at the end of the day that struck me was “Sunlight Ends.”

That struck me as a really nice moment on the record and a nice moment live. There’s these little antecedents in the Wilco library. I always think of “In a Future Age.” These delicate songs in more of a midtempo.

But that one, to me, landed well live.